By Robert Waits (Bearguy) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

So...Who won the new Max at Hunphry????

By Alan Teryn on Unrecorded Date: Edit

The actual person is Gemel Elom from Salamanca, NY. However, since Gemel is only about 10 years old his mother will be taking ownership since Gemel is a minor.

By Ernie Savinsky (Lucky45) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

yeah chief John, Tim ,who won it? or was it a rip-off like there excuse for food also?Send me $ 60 for a new tire for my truck your excuse for a mowed field caused and I'll shut-up!!
Ernie

By Brad (B1spoon) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I think one of the ladies that worked there, had a kid who won it.

By Tim Wafer (Iflyrctoo) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Ernie, what was so terrible about the food? I know they didn't serve gourmet meals but I thought the chicken was good. I'm sorry about your tire but take it easy before you get an ulcer. Stuff happens. My diesel truck broke down on the way home and it might cost me $1000 to repair it. That's certainly not in my budget either but what can I do. No sense crying over spilled milk. I think the fire department put on a fine jamboree and am glad they took the trouble to do it. Nobody's twisting their arm to do it so I think we ought to be grateful!
Tim

By david berger (David3rdd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

my friend and i managed to kill our machines but overall have to say we had a great time!the chicken was great!! i do wish there was more food but lets not forget the jamboree probly doubled the towns population over the weekend ,theres not much available in the saroundind erea eather so pack up on suplyes next year, i am planing to bring more food,i'll start out earlyer so i can get set up befor sat, ooh befor i go dose anyone know how many people where there? machines? thanks

By mazurowsk on Unrecorded Date: Edit

There was'nt an official count of machines but there were about 256 people counted on the dice run. I hate to say things to people but this is for Ernie... I drove all over the field in my truck and had no problems and I don't know what you expect from a field anyway it isnt as if it were a paved lot ITS A FIELD.. any way my husband and I had a great time as we have every year. We have been at all three jamborees and had a great time everytime. Eeach year is a little diffrent than the last and that is what makes it great it keeps you on your toes. The fire department ,as the guy said before, doesn't have to put this on for us Chief Lockwood is a great guy and works very hard to do all of this with a minumim amount of help, so I think you should be greatful to have a place to go and ride. That is all I will say for now but THANK YOU HFD

By Ernie Savinsky (Lucky45) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Yeah!! go early and camp next to the firehouse instead in a field full of sharp cutoff sticks!

Bring a jack, generator , compressor and 100 gallons of tire sealer, and 12 spare tires and rims. 50 max automatic Argo style chain adjusters, and a supply of those new composite axles that don't bend.

Stop @ McDee's and buy a supply of cold bk,lunch and supper to eat instead of tough cold chicken.

Bring a lowboy and a D-8 to go thru and smooth the killer boulders and quad ruts from the trail.

Seriously! Joe with camper thanks for coffee, NH Max boys with trailer,Bq grill, burgers and beer a life saver! Man and wife w/ Argo from Ohio had brought everything but kitchen sink and also left Sat b/c it was too cold!

knowing the location of there town, the fact that its a fund raiser???????? I expected to be able to buy not bring/beg for food and be told I could drive down to diner on flat tire because a breakfeast was not available! Should I be suprised someone from dept won max? At least the kid can make max size ruts in the trails now!!!!

If it was Ford with IH, or dodge with cummins that broke too bad. If it was GM's excuse its what to expect when you own one!

By Alan Teryn on Unrecorded Date: Edit

According to the Humphrey Fire Department there were 225 people registered for the dice run. Of course every one in a machine could register to roll the dice. It seems that no one bothered to count machines. Overall I would say it was at least as big as last years event. Although is hard to say without an actual count. If I had to guess I would say there were over a hundred machines.

Alan

By Tim Wafer (Iflyrctoo) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Ernie
It is a 95 Dodge with a Cummings. The news keeps getting worse too. They are talking about having to replace the injector pump. That's multiple thousands. Uggh! Just out of warranty too unless I can pull some strings. I still had a Great time at Humphrey and plan on attending next year if they are good enough to hold the event again! Thanks Humphrey Fire Dept.!
Tim

By Dave Blackburn (Dave) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Tim,
I thought my '96 Dakota was eating up money with $1600.00 to rebuild the tranny, $130.00 to replace two rotors that rusted out before the pads wore out and now the valves are rattling! All that before 50,000 miles. Those new Dodge Rams look good, but when I trade this one in I'm Dodge free for good!!
Dave

By Russell Lee (Powerstroke) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I owned a 1990 dodge, within 10,000 miles I needed a new rear main seal, by 15,000 miles I needed the
3rd new rear main seal. Rather than replace the engine, What chrysler should have done, they decided to continue to inconvience me by repairing the truck free of charge every time it needed replacement for as long as I owned the truck. I traded it in on a 96 F250 Diesel, the month after it was paid for. Total number of rear main
seals @ 95,000? 8 and desperately needed #9 when I sold it. I would never buy another Chrysler product again, not because they make a bad product, but because of the way they treated me as a customer.

By Ernie Savinsky (Lucky45) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Tim:

Ouch! who says this a Dodge dealer or Cummins?
A proper shop and tech with the flow and prussure gauges can rebuild a pump? If its a Cat style pump that makes its high pressure @ pump not nozzle injectors it is more pricey than replacing one that has pressure generated from injectors in engine cylinders.
Ernie

By Tim Wafer (Iflyrctoo) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

This apparently is a very unusual problem and they are having trouble finding the real culprit. I've had it to 3 shops. It's intermittent and very hard to diagnose unless it happens while in the garage, which it of course never does.
Tim

By Joel Haslett (Rustyjeep) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

To Mazurowsk, Sorry I didn't make Humphery this year. I still have some good pictures and memories of last year in your Max4. Thanks again for the ride. We hope to make it next year with some of our older 6x6s even if we have to drive them the 600 miles to get there(hey maybeI've got an idea???). Can anybody tell me what was there for older 6x6s? Does anybody have pictures of this years ride yet?

By Barney Rubble on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You guys remind me of high school, way, way, off the subject. Peter [at the very top] still wants to know which one to buy. I think the topic was "Should I buy a Max or an Argo?"
Before the people who bruise easy, bruise over the interruption----
I'm not being disrespectful when I say -- help us from making a 6x6 purchasing mistake.
Why don't we cut the mustard and put the cards on the table. I've been reading these postings because I'm interested in what you have to share on 6x6 atvs.
I mean who the hell is going to know more on the matter and tell the truth about it then you guys.

From what I read above -
the Max people are in the lead for my 6x6 vote.

By 52866 on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hey Erine
(LUCKY45)??? Don't sound to Lucky to me. Sounds more like a cry baby to me. Your the kind of person this sport does not need. What do you want to do, ride your 6X6 or 8X8 on black top trails, and eat at OUTBACK STEAK HOUSE? They didn't have showers, but I would bet you didn't dirty did you? To cold! you really are a sissy aren't you. Do us all a favor and stay home next year. As far as the young man who won the MAX, I was at the drawing and a little girl pull the winning ticket out of the box. It was all above board. It did my heart good to see a young man that more then likely would never be able to aford a toy like that to win.
I want to say THANK YOU VERY MUCH HUMMPERY FIRE DEPARTMENT for a great time and hope people like this clown (Erine) are few and far between. Larry (Sti-Me)

By Tim Wafer (Iflyrctoo) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I apologize for straying so far from the topic of this board. The best advice I can give on choosing between Argos and Maxs is to try them both out before you buy. What's good for one person may not be for another. It depends on the intended use and driving preferences. My observations are as follows.
The Argos seem to offer a smoother ride than the Max for whatever reason. They appear a little more ruggedly constructed but also harder to work on and maintain. The Max seems to have better traction because of the difference in the drive train. Argos 8 wheelers offer more room and cargo handling but are not as maneuverable. To each his or her own.
Tim

By Rob Roberts (Rob) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

From all the reading of this message board and my own personal reach. It seem that max have Hydorstatic transmissions, hollow axles but you can buy soild one, one other thing I have noticed is that 2 man max and 4 man max, is they just streched out the body and the wheeles making the wheel base longer. So by rights with that machine with four man would have more ground presure.

Argos have open differental transmission, axel extension on front of most model, it seem that agros have a better slection of accersories. Which I think is a plus. I hate cobbled together acceroriess to make things work.

Engine size. To me speed is not every thing you can only go so fast in any 6x6 before you get bouced out of the machine.

Which one gets stuck faster, my therory if you don't get stuck with 6x6 your not trying had enough. Which one to buy who knows. Do your home work. Do your reach.

By Tim Wafer (Iflyrctoo) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Rob
Maybe you just misspoke but Max does not have hydrostatic transmissions. They use the T-20 skid steer tranny. Also they all come standard with hollow splined axles now.
Tim

By david berger (David3rdd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

NAH BOB, THE TRANY ON A MAX ISENT HYDRO BUT I WISH IT WAS, T-20'S ARE KIND OF HARSH YOU NEED TO DO YOUR HOMEWORK OVER AGEN,

By Tim Wafer (Iflyrctoo) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Now I misspoke! I meant solid splined axles!
Tim

By Rob Roberts (Rob) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

If Max dosent have hydrostic tranny than how does it operate. I understand that you have to shift gears to go forward and reverse. Or is t-20 two seperate transmission. The only way to devert all power to one side is with one of the above

By Barney Rubble on Unrecorded Date: Edit

If you had to choose an aatv - which one would it be?
Max, Argo, HydroTraxx, Triton, ..etc....why?

By DAVIDRRRD on Unrecorded Date: Edit

ROB, MANY TYPS OF TRANYS DO, MOST HAVE SEPERAT PLANITARY SETS AND SUNGEARS THAT MAY OR MAY NOT BE LINKED BY SAME SHAFT - SO THE T-20 IS TWO INDEPENDENT TRANS THAT USE THE SAME INPUT SHAFT EACH WITH ITS OWN SUNGEAR, JUST LIKE ATTEX BAKER HILL,AMPHACAT,ECT..BUT THE T-20 USES A DOUBLE WOUNDBANDS THAT ARE SELF LOCKING(HARSH ENGAGEMENT)OTHERS USED DIFERANT WAYS TO OPERATE THE PLANITARY SETS, MOST ARE FETHERABLE(SMOTH OPERATION)

By Tim Wafer (Iflyrctoo) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Rob
The T-20 is essentially two transmissions in one case. Each side is independent from the other. Each side can theoretically be shifted into forward or reverse independently also, but is not set up this way in most machines including the MAX. Both sides DO drive independently from one another however.
Tim

By MaxRules (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

My Hustler has two separate shifters so you can shift on side into forward and the other into reverse. It looks like it was factory made like this. I have no idea what David is talking about with the harsh engaugement stuff. It does exactly what you want it to do, depending on how you move the sticks. If it kicks in hard it is your fault.

I am putting new seals in my Husttler transmission. The last guy that put new seals in it broke an o-ring which caused it to leak. I took it apart last Monday. I couldn't believe how easy it was. I ordered the parts and they should be here by Tuesday. I plan to have it all back together for the Deepwater ride in two weeks.

The exhaust pipe runs really close to the plastic in two places. I am thinking about getting some heat wrap to cover the entire exhaust so the plastic doesn't get hot. Does anybody know if doing this has any bad points?

MaxRules

By MoralDK on Unrecorded Date: Edit

MaxRules, I just ordered some from Summit Racing. A 2"x50' roll for $41.00 (incl. shipping). I couldn't find any here in town. I don't think there are any bad points. I'm going to wrap my expansion chamber on my 440 Polaris in Trail Boss.
My goal is to send most of the pipe heat out the side vent.

By mr. tinker on Unrecorded Date: Edit

you could try motorcycle heat shields.you can get them at a motorcycle shop.shops that sell harley parts will have them for sure.these shields are held on by hose clamps that are hidden by the shield itself.

By Tim Wafer (Iflyrctoo) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Brandon
I've heard that the Hustler was one that had independent forward/reverse shifting on each side. How is it set up and how well does it work in the real world? Is it a pain in the neck to get one side going each way?
Tim

By david berger (David3rdd) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

BRANDEN, THE ENGINEAR THAT DISINED IT SIED IT WAS DESIGNED THAT WAY AND SO,IF IT DONT WORK THAT WAY IT'S PROBLY OUT OF ADJUSTMENT! OH YAH- IT MIGHT HAVE BIN MODIFYD WITH THAT GM DIF. SLIP JUNK,ANOTHER QUOTE FROM THE DISINER" IF I KNEW WHAT IT WOULD END UP USED FOR I'D HAVE DONE IT COMPLEATLY DIERANTLY" I BELEAVE THAT WAS IN REFRENCE TO THE NON FETHERABILITY, YOU CAN DO IT IF YOU LIKE BUT IT'S PROBLY HEATING IT UP TOO MUCH. AND IT WILL NEVER DRIVE AS SMOTHLY AS ONE OF THOSE OTHERS.THAY DONT HAVE TO SLAM CHAINS TO STEAR THEM !

By MaxRules (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I have seen no advantage to shifting each side in a different direction. It is easier and faster to use the Max's single shifter than it is to shift both on the Hustler. If I ride it next weekend at Deepwater I will see if I can find any place where the Hustler's shifting set up works better. The only advantage my Hustler will have is high speed and fast spinning tires in the mud.

MaxRules

By Kenstuff on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Ernie-I've just now gotten into this whole realm of 6x6 or 8x8 ATV's and it is a good thing that there are other objective opinions out there because if there were only your gripes and compaints I would think that I wouldn't even want to own one. Jeez I never ever knew of all of these things until I started researching things this year. I wasn't at Humphrey but it seems to be a good thing to have and all you want to do is complain that it wasn't the Ritz...So get over it, rough it, and TRY to enjoy it!!!!!!

By KenTharp on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Ive had a 1998 max and it was a good machine. It lacked in power. But if one person was in it wasnt to bad.But I hunted with pretty good size oleboy and myself in there was just not enough power and room. Ido a lot of duck hunting and iam in about two or three feet of water and foot of mud. And the max had a lot water seepage arounde the axles .and some around those cheap water plugs.But I did like the leg room when going down steep hills.Last year i bought a ARGO and i love it.The room is great and power is unbeliveable. I put on a wind shield winch hand rails cigerett lighter and a costom rollbar.My opinion betheen the max and the bigfoot is no comparson .ARGO is by far easer to do rutine maintance with the exception of changing the oil. P.S If it has six whells its not all bad. Mudslinger.

By MaxRules (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Ken what engine did your Max have? I will admit the 14hp is underpowerd although managable, but the 18hp and new 20hp has more than enough power to do anything. I have the 14hp... or should I say used to have. I spent a few hundred dollars on mods and it was the best money I ever spent on an ATV. The difference is like night and day. I finished the project and put the engine back in on New Year's Eve and since then I have been adjusting and breaking in the 'new' engine. The governor is bypassed and it runs like a real engine should. Half throttle is faster and more powerful than full throttle was before. I will post more pics and info on my mods soon. I hope more people will be interested, it is easily worth the money.

MaxRules

By ronijan on Unrecorded Date: Edit

We are in the process of purchasing an ATV for our 17 year old son who has a spinal cord injury. He will be using it for his "Temporary outdoor legs" He has diminished strength in his upper body and arms and very little leg movement while seated. He has driven the 8-wheel Conquest which had the upgraded tires. It was wonderful seeing him outside and independent! It did give him a good upper body work-out keeping his balance ect. That is the only vehicle we have ever seen like it. The dealership is 900 miles away. We are trying to decide sight unseen which vehicle is best. We understand the Max would be harder to drive with handicaps. We have also heard the Bigfoot might be a rougher ride and less stable. However it is the one we are leaning toward...the size is right and the price is right. Cas could handle the Conquest with the bigger tires which we were told made it also a very rough ride. We are concerned about how easy it would be to roll the Bigfoot. They said there is more stability with the Conquest. Cas would not be taking it to the limits as you guys do.. Maybe some sand dunes but we mostly live in a flat area. One other question...if we went with the Conquest would it be necessary to upgrade the tires if he was driving in Mesquite and pincushion cactus? Thanks for any input!

By Alan Meeuwsen (Albo) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

ronijan,
I'm not sure why you said that a max would be harder to for your son to drive than an argo but I have not driven an argo so I can't say for sure however, let me say this. I am handicapped(no use of my legs)and I bought a max2 and had a problem keeping my balance in turns untill I put in a racecar seat with a five point harness.That really made all the difference in the world.Now I can do about anything anyone else can do.I also have a rollbar on mine which I would suggest no matter which machine you decide on.You sure wouldn't want to be strapped in and have a rollover without either a rollbar or a roll cage.
As far as the bigger tires on the conquest making it a rough ride, I would think that bigger tires with higher side walls would give you a softer ride since the tires are the only thing that gives you any suspension on these machines.Keeping the air pressure on the low side should help a little.If you do put in a bucket seat you could allways add a little extra cusion like a couple inches of memory foam.
I am very happy with my max but I think either machine would be just fine.Good luck with whatever one you go with.
Alan

By Douglas MacCullagh (Dougmac) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Ronijan,
I agree that the Max requires more "umph" to steer than Argo. The Argo 8-wheelers (Conquest & Response) do give a better ride and are easier to steer, but at 10 feet long don't fit a pickup truck bed too well. Bigfoot does have sturdier tires, but softer tires give a softer ride. Bigfoot would probably be a good balance of size & ride. A seatbelt might be a good addition.

By Douglas MacCullagh (Dougmac) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Alan -

Larger tires will have more "give" only if the sidewalls are the same stiffness on both tires sizes. The runamucks are pretty soft and act like a soft spring, with admittedly limited travel. A stiff tire like the rawhides, with the stiffer sidewall, acts like a stiffer spring. The longer travel may help. So should lower air pressure. But there is more to it that just diameter.

By Russell Lee (Bigkodiak) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I recently met someone who had no movement is his legs who had a Max II. He was going to buy a new machine and decided on the Bigfoot because he could put his wheelchair in the back. That was his only complaint about the Max. He told me the only reason he was buying a new machine was because his old one was just getting old, 15 years old and he wanted a new reliable machine.
Russ

By gottabnuts on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hey folks ,sorry in advance if I`ve posted in the wrong section ,New to the board and just trying to get a feel for things : )
Have been considering purchasing an Argo 6x6 Bigfoot and was attempting to research this machine when I stumbled across this board.
Am interested in feed back on the unit ( Pros and cons ) I have absolutely no experience with this or any other type of machine so I am also interested in maintenance schedules/difficulties.
I have chosen this mode of travel as I believe it would best suit my needs.It would be primarily used to get me out to my honey spot on the ice and more then likely stored during the summermonths as my job demands most of my spare time then .Any proper storage methods would also be appreciated.Also ,If someone would kindly guide me to the buy and sell section of this board so that I could start to get an idea on pricing...Thanks all...Keep the mud off your flaps.....Gottabnuts

By bigredwolf on Unrecorded Date: Edit

We are a Max Dealer in the Southeastern Michigan Area. If you are any where around our area, and would like some assistance with your decision process, or test drive a Max unit, please give us a call at (313)220-9114 or contact us via e-mail by clicking on the red user name in this message posting. We are also avid outdoors people, and can relate to what your individual needs are.

Thanks
BigRedWolf

By BigRedWolf on Unrecorded Date: Edit

The Argo Bigfoot is a nice unit, great ground clearance with just the 25" tires tires installed. Good for carrying two adults and some kids in the back, or just gear.

Both Brand names Argo and Max are excellent machines, in any model you choose. Both companies and the associated dealer will take care of you just fine. The quality of design and build of both brands is excellent. Both come with a one yaer warranty on the machines, and up to a two year warranty on the the engines offered. Any of the engine brand chioces are all good choices, they are all big name brands like Briggs and Stratton, Kohler, and Kawasaki.

Regarding Routine maintenance schedules and so on, both brands will require the same amount of mantenance and attention. The maintenance is required is pretty basic, after the initial break in period of about 10 hours, you change the engine oil and filter, check the drive chain tensions and re-adjust if needed, pump a couple of shots of EP water proof marine bearing grease into each bearing, check the fluid level in the transmission, and that is it about all. There is a list of items that they suggest you inspect, just to get you more familiar withyour new machine. After that, you just the next scheduled maintenance will be according to what the manual calls for. You basically will perform the same steps at the the scheduled intervals, keep all fluids checked and changed and specified, and keep the chain tension checked and adjusted properly, and the machine will be very reliable, and will last you many years.

If you only plan to carry two passengers out to ice fish, then the Max II machine, will also work just fine for your aplication. It is a lighter weight than the Argo Bigfoot and the Max IV machines, and is not a bad choice. You can always carry extra gear with you, by towing a small type Polyethylene molded ATV pull behind trailer, or a portable pull behind ice fishing shanty. A couple of the companies that manufacture the portable ice fishing shanty's and plastic molded pull sleds, now offer these ATV pull behind trailers. Otter Outdoors, and Polar Sport both offer them starting at about $200 or $300. These particular ATV pull behind trailers are also amphibious and are a good match with amphibios ATV 's. This is the same setup that we use for ice fishing and hunting, to haul extra gear. The web site addresses for these two campanies are www.otteroutdoors.com, and www.polarsport.com.

The Max IV machine is also a great choice with the 26" tires, it is a four passenger machine, and is comparable to the Argo Bigfoot, and the Argo Conquest 6x6 machines. These machines are heavier than the Max II machine.

Again since you do plan to operate in the winter time exclusively for ice fishing, we would also recommend buying the optional snow track kit. With the snow tracks you should never get stuck in the snow that is deeper than about 14" inches or more, and the tracks will further reduce your ground pressure, which is even better for operating on the ice, and crossing over most gaps or pressure cracks caused by the ice packs expanding or shifting during the windy conditions.

What ever machine you choose, you will want to get the largest horse power engine offered for that model, for runnig snow tracks, the tracks do rob the machine of approximately 20% to 30% of its horse power. The machine will also need to have solid axles and the outer bearing extention cages pre-installed if possible, to save you some time and work when you buy and install the balance of the track kit. You can buy a new machine with these items pre-installed by the factory.

You will also want to have a winch package installed on the front of the machine, so that if you do get stuck or break throught the ice, then you can get back out. I also carry a coupe of good size steel spikes and a small hand held sledge hammer, to make myself and anchor point in the ice, this will allow you to hook up the winch cable and pull it back on top of the ice.

If you have any other questions or would like to discuss your application further, please contact us at your convenience. (313) 220-9114.

I Hope this information helps you.

Thanks
Gary
aka "BigRedWolf"

By attex designer on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Buy and restore an ATTEX! theyre the best

By TODD CASWELL on Unrecorded Date: Edit

LIKE (GOTTABNUTS) I AM INTERESTED IN WINTER USE OF THESE ATVS . I DON'T HAVE MUCH KNOWLEDGE OF THE ARGOS OR MAX ON TRACKS THE NEIGHBOR HAS A PASSEPARTOUT TRACKED ATV HE IS RESTORING IS IT GOOD IN SNOW ? SHOULD I JUST STAY OUT IN THE ELEMENTS ON A SNOWMOBILE ? THANKS FOR YOUR INPUT GUYS IM LOOKING FOR A MULTIPLE PASENGER SOME CARGO MANUVERABLE ACCESS TO THE GREAT OUT DOORS I WILL USE IT IN THE WARMMER MONTHS AS WELL

By Big Wolf on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Todd both machines run great in snow during the winter with the track kits installed, and are just flat out increadible in mud conditions and climbing over obstacles. You really need to get out and test drive both products of various models, to get a good feeling and understanding for what they can do for you in the outdoors.

I can only tell you that we have owned and used snow mobiles and 4 wheel ATV's for years, and there is just no camparison.

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Todd, I have no experiance with MAX but both ARGO and MAX have track capabilities. I know from experiance with ARGO that the tracks are generally easy to get on and very easy to get off, and perform amazingly. The downfall, if you have a lower model ARGO with less hp, then the tracks suck the power right out of the engine. YOu need at least 18 hp to run tracks adequately. The ARGO tracks are hard plastic, and they are in segments. They are pricy (don't know what they are worth these days) but my tracks are being used on the third ARGO and are over 20 years old, never been replaced, except for a pin or two thats got rusted and worn. From what I have heard, the tracks on the MAX are cheeper (price wise!!!!!!- DON"T ANYONE TAKE THAT THE WRONG WAY!) and Im not sure if this is true or not but the older MAX vehicles require a bearing upgrade I think to run tracks. ARGO has two track options, Standard tracks, or super. The SUper tracks are much wider than the standard, but stay up in the snow better. THe standard tracks are designed for use in snow, mud, swamps, and dirt and they are also able to be used over logs, rocks etc. The super tracks are meant for just deep snow and they advise against using on harsh terrain as they put more strain on the vehicle. To see the standard tracks in action, you can take a look at my site:
www.argomag.50megs.com and they are around the photo page 1. My tracks have never failed me, and Im sure that MAX are good also, but as I said, I don't have any experiance with them. Fred Sowerwine may be able to help here (MIDWEST AATV's) MAX can carry I think up to 4 people with the larger model, ARGO can carry 4 in the smaller models (6x6) and 6 people in the 8x8 models. You can cram more in if you really want and they won't complain about it at all. The ARGO vehicle are a strong built vehicle that stand up to what is thrown at them providing they are maintained as like any other vehicle. Hope this helps you out and weigh out both and decide from there as pretty much everyone here will tell you. my e-mail is argo_mag@hotmail.com if you have any other questions

By Eric on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Todd,
Something else you might want to consider is whether or not you plan to run a tracked 6 wheeler on public snowmobile trails. I almost purchased a new 950t Max IV with tracks with great expectations of taking the family out on the miles of public snowmobile trails in New York and Pennsylvania as I live close to both. It turns out that in order to use the public snowmobile trails a machine must steer with skis, be no wider than 48'' and must be a full-time snow machine. So that knocks out any chance of using a 6 wheeler or 4 wheeler with tracks. On the other hand it is still ok for the standard atv class 2 vehicle trails. The catch is this though, once the track kit is installed it makes the 6 wheeler too wide to fit through the entrance poles to the public atv trails in this area. I don't own enough private acreage or know anyone close enough with a couple hundred acres to have made this purchase useful enough for me to buy with tracks. I still hear that new 950t calling me...maybe just without tracks! I have a MaxII now so, I can tell you they are great machines. Had an ARGO in 1997 too.

By bosshoss on Unrecorded Date: Edit

So how much do Argo and Max's run? What is the price difference?

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

bosshoss, You will have to check with dealers for actual prices. You can use Route6x6's links page to find dealers of both brands. Most Max dealers have prices on their web pages and you will find most will work with you to get you a fair price (lots of competition in Max sales). When you do compare prices, be sure to compare against like machines (engine size and load capacity). So Argo Vanguards and Bigfoot to the Max II and the argo eights to the Max IV. You are kind of comparing apples to crab apples because Argo does not offer the engine choices or the tire choices and performance is determined by horsepower to the tires and PSI on the ground. The new Argo Avenger (based on specs) does appear to be the best Argo yet.

By Jon Hoath on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Boss,
If you buy a max, you can buy factory direct right now for dealer cost according to the max brochure I just recieved in the mail. 2000.00 + dollars off regular price. I might even buy one for that price.. poor max dealers...
1-800-255-2511 is the number. you are a loyal dealer Fred, I respect that.
factory direct max prices good through May 14,2004;
max II 450-T 4495.00
max II 600-T 6195.00
max IV 500-T 6295.00
max IV 600-T 7095.00
max IV 850-T 7695.00
max IV 900-T 8095.00
max IV 950-T 8395.00
Last I was told the 950-T retailed at a dealer for 11,450.00 dollars, that is one hell of a discount.
Argo prices at MSRP;
Vanguard 7800.00 6x6
bigfoot 9300.oo 6x6
response 10,800.00 8x8
conquest 12435.00 8x8
Avenger 13499.00 8x8
I would test drive both and figure out what suits your needs best. and make sure you will have a dealer that will take care of the customer after the sale. you will want to see what options will be needed also and if they are available for the model/ make you chose. test drive alot, I am a dealer and have no problem test driving someone 3 or 4 times to make sure they will be happy with what they are buying. If you plan on having it in the water, test drive alot on the water also. get the demo video, brochure, and research your prospective purchase thoroughly. good luck

By Big Wolf on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Well John I do belive what you are saying to be true, you are the second person to mention this same thing going on with R.I. Myself and other Max dealers will probably be very interested to see this actual factory direct promotion offer that you are talking about first hand. I would like it if you would mail a copy of it to me, or even a scanned e-mail would be fine.

I have spoken with a couple of other dealers about your message posting, after I read it. This one is definately news to most all of us Max dealers. Non of us can even come close to touching those prices that you have listed and that is a fact!

This is a real low point and tragedy for the Max dealers and the Max product line. I know several dealers that have just recently taken delivery of new machines on the factories floor plan financing arrangements. It seems to me those dealers have now been hung out to dry by the factory, if this is indeed what is currently going on.

I do not know all of the facts about this subject yet, however, you can rest assure that I and many others will know more before the end of the week!

As for myself, I have limited my exposure to some extent, at my own choosing; however, I am still bleeding red today, and I have only been at his for a short period of time.

The real shame of it is, I just managed to get an excellent local financing source set up this past week, to do pre-approved financing deals through our dealership, and we have just started to move some high end machines for them, and now this happens. I just spoke with the factory about this, and they are amazed by what we have managed to do for them so far, in such a short period of time.

Oh well, it only takes a few strategic moves to put this area back into complete hybernation once again, just like it always has been! That was a very poor judgement call and move on their part!

By argoguru on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Big Wolf,
That is a bad deal for those dealers who floor planned a bunch of machines. I do hope it does not cause dealers to go belly up, this is already a tough enough business to keep going.

By Big Wolf on Unrecorded Date: Edit

John,

I glad that we spoke over the phone about this subject and thanks for faxing to me the R.I. promotional flier that you mentioned above. Like I said, I did belive what you were saying, I just needed to see the flier with my own eyes to confirm the facts for myself. So now I can say with out hesitation it is indeed confirmed!

What they have just done is completely uncalled for, and a very unprofessional thing to do to their so called business partners and die hard supporters. I have witnessed many other worse acts conducted by businesses over the years, but this one ranks up there high in my book. They have really put the hurt on those dealers that just recently floor planned machines for them.

As I sit here and type this message, I can tell you, the flier the Max dealers just received from R.I. in the mail just this past week, is nothing comparable to the promo offer that you have faxed to me. We were offered the typical 5% off of dealer cost, if we pre-purchase 2 or more machines and $200 off of freight. Or six months interest free flooring and 3% off of dealer cost and $200 off of freight. These cost numbers do not even come close to the cost numbers being offered to the general public customer.

Hell at this point time, since all hell has broke loose, and it is now officially a free for all, if I were you guys, I would call them up and ask for another 10% off of the latest promo deal. What have you got to loose by asking! They may just say ok!

These are signs and acts that you would expect to see a company do, when they are in a deep financial crisis. I only have one piece of advice to who ever is reading this posting, do not let your cash leave your hands, unless you can physically see a machine being loaded onto your truck or trailer in person. To do any thing other than that, you may be asking for trouble.

By I feel duped on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hey now guys, what does this do to the value of my brand new Max that I paid big bucks for? It's not just the dealers that are getting hurt now is it. My Max isn't worth much on the "used" market now that it has 2 hours on it now is it. Is this really true that RI did this? This may be a good deal for someone who is wanting a new one but it puts a bad taste in my mouth that I spent so much and now I have lost more. Who out there wants to buy my slightly used Max with 2 hours on it. And to think that I was thinking about becoming a dealer myself. I feel sorry for all of the Max dealers out there but especially those who have more than a couple of machines in their inventory.

So much for factory support for their dealers. Maybe they are falling on hard times. Maybe they should have helped the dealers more on their prices so that they could sell more machines and build up the sales.

By Maxed Out on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Maybe RI is really telling us what their product is worth. Now ODG should lower their prices. Since Argos are so overpriced anyways, I suggest that ODG should lower their prices by at least $5000. Heck, If I could get a new Avenger for about the same as a 950T???

By Max4Us on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Is RI going under? Well if they do, it would be wise for someone to buy what's left. Once a manufacturer is gone, no more parts support.

By Joe on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Did anyone call RI and ask them about the sale? Or would everyone rather complain about it on some discussion board and guess at it and get nowhere? I guess the second is true.

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Well guys, I haven't talked to anyone at the factory about this lately, but I doubt they are going out of business. As far as dealer support on sales, don't worry. If you have a customer that has a special offer, the factory will make it right with you. These special offers only go to places that have no dealers. The factory must sell machines to keep their workers busy (they do what they have to do to keep the machines going out the door, just like the auto companies do).

You recent buyers, don't worry, you could have bought an argo (and then wouldn't you feel like you didn't get your money's worth?). Look on ebay and you will know that any skid steer with low hours is a really good deal (about 1/2 of new cost).

Anyone who received a flyer should act on it. You can tell from this thread that it is a really good deal. If you want to buy from a specific dealer, do it - all he has to do is call the factory for specific details. It does make it hard to get rid of inventory, but my guess is the factory has a plan to take care of that also.

I think if is a little strange how it doesn't matter what RI does, some people aren't happy! First the machines cost too much, now they sell them too cheaply. The name of the game is turnover and if you were happy with the deal when you made it, don't worry. Buying a max is a better deal than buying a computer - with the computer, you know there will be one twice as good coming out for 1/2 the price if you just wait two weeks.

Yes. it is time for Argo to reduce their prices also.

By Big Wolf on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I would have to guess that they will not go out of business. They have weathered a lot of hard times since 1969. This is only speculating, however, I would have to guess that they have taken a complete defensive posture, to ensure that they at least break even for the first and second quarter of 2004.

R.I. had a nice promotion for the dealers and direct customers going on during the fourth quarter of 2003. it was even better than the current promotion going on now. Just guessing, I would have to say they probably did not get enough dealers to participate and pre-purchase machines for inventory, and possibly did not get quite enough direct sales to make them more comfortable. We are now approaching the end of the first quarter of 2004, and sales probably have not improved enough to make them feel comfortable for the balance of the fiscal year.

They are probably now experiencing the after affects of the economic down turn. There is not enough consumer and or dealer confindence to start buying up any substantial volume of machines right now.

Their machine costing structute has apparently been driven down to near zero profit margin for their dealers for what ever various reasons. In my mind I now see and relate their "dealer cost" as actually being the newly established "MSRP". Any value above the newly defined "Dealer/MSRP Cost" will now be the profit margin for the dealer, or the commision for the inside sales guys!

It is a cyclic thing going on once again, when booms times are here, every one rides the gravy train fat and happy, and MSRP's keep scooting up 5% or 10% a year, and new dealers keep jumping on board for the ride. When the down turn hits hard and stays for a while, you get to actually witness the every man for himself symdrom going on, followed by the pervibial hosing down and flushing out of the gravy train. Then the cycle starts all over again after things have improved. Not quite sure if they enjoy operating in this manner, or if they are just that small of an outfit and lack the experience to understand and change things.

By BigWolf on Unrecorded Date: Edit

You know some thing, in fact I did speak with both Galin and Jay at the factory as recently as last week Wednesday, regarding my problem with chains and the T-20 shifter mechanism changes.

The last things that I do remember talking with Galin about was that I am currently working with a customer on a deal for a high end 950T machine. There was no heads up even provided about the new promo deal at all, or that I may need to adjust the pricing accordingly for the current deal with my customer.

You know I have no desire or interest in screwing any one out of a great factory promo deal going on! If they need us to work with them and pass along the savings that is fine with me, they just need to say some thing about it! Your personal credibility and trust mean every thing to poeple!

Maybe they had a bad day going or some thing to that affect and or forgot to mention it to me.

By Missouri's Max Dealer (Brandon_price) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

I just spoke with Galen at RI and confirmed all the above information. Basically, the main problem is dealers not stocking machines (I think because of things like this) and the factory needing sales. The last time I bought machines was when they had their last big dealer sale. It was $1500 off most IIs and $2000 off most IVs. I bought one of each and that sale was the only reason I did that. Galen said only about ten machines were sold under that sale. I can't believe dealers didn't buy at those prices. I hate the fact that these low prices were offered to the public, but 95% of dealers are doing nothing. I personally feel I can't sell vehicles without having them in stock. I doubt I will be able to stock vehicles after this despairate move by the factory. However, you can get those prices through the dealer of your choice just by telling them. The factory will make it right with the dealer by selling to them under that cost. Dealers are not totally abondoned.

It is unfortunate we can't have bigger, more devoted dealers. The factory dealer network and direct sales practices is what keeps myself and other I have talked to from going big. As it is right now, you have to be half crazy and maybe partially stupid to stock even two machines. On the other hand, my Argo distributor has 20, yes twenty, machines on hand at all times. I have my doubts about being an Argo dealer but it's looking better and better.

By Midwest atv's #1 since 2000 (Hustler) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Guys,
Fred is right. RI is not going out of business. They do this 2 to 3 times a year to produce sales. I have called them about this and they only sent out "X" amount of these coupons and only to people that are not in a dealer territory. RI told me that they need to reduce the amount of inventory that they have. I think its so they can make the profit that they want for thte first Quarter. Also, RI has given me permission to sell any Max at these prices as long as you have the coupon. The sale is only for a certain time frame. If you have a coupon, please don't buy direct. Try to buy from a dealer that is close to you. Most dealers like myself can and do ship anywhere. Support your dealers out here when ever possible. Oh yeah, I am pissed about this also. They should give this deal to dealers to buy stock so we can sell cheaper to Customers so everyone can make a little money and the Customers will still get a great price.

By michigan maxster on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hi Guys,
I have to tell Big Wolf and Midwest Atv's that I live in big wolf's territory just across the michigan line from toledo ohio. I got one of those great deal pamphlets from R.I. I get them all the time. I also am just down the street from another very small max dealer in Ottawa Lake Mich. His business has two machines in stock as I write this. He is less than 4 miles from me. I guess R.I. isn't that proud to try to raid territories. I currently own a maxII 2000 model year.Sorry to burst your bubbles guys. Hey Big Wolf I have checked out your web site Real Coooollll!!!! I like it a lot. I would like to see your stuff sometime as I don't think your very far away from me.

By Huh? on Unrecorded Date: Edit

My closest Max dealer is about 200 miles away. RI had me on the mailing list or at least did when I asked for a brochure. I never got a promotion coupon. So what gives RI???

By argoguru on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Big wolf fred and troy,
I have a max dealer 7 miles away from me, so R.I. needs to figure out who and where their dealers are. I bet they sent out alot more of those flyers than what they are saying... Welcome to the world of sales... that sucks..

By Big Wolf on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Hey come on over some time, just give me a call on my cell phone and let me know ahead of time.
I would be glad to show you some of the stuff that I have been working on.

I have also been taking some time to call and or visit and talk with our local Argo distributor and some of our local Argo and Max dealers, and also a few of the out of state Max dealers lately. I think it only makes good sense to do things like this once in a while. It does help to open up and build some good working relationships with other poeple.

One of these days I do want to go over and visit the Argo Factory. I also want to visit and check out the Hydro Traxx stuff at some point in time. I have visited the R.I. factory and met several of their people already. This is also a very good thing to do to at least get more familiar with other peoples products and services available out there.

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

To whomever cares: RI dealerships are allocated by county and mailings are done by zipcode. One could live close to a county line with a dealer right next door and not be in his territory. Data entry is done by humans so errors do happen occasionally. RI mails to people for about three years. If RI delivers a machine in your territory, you will get a check. Price is a volatile thing depending on many conditions (watch the stock market for a while and you will know just what I am talking about) and even though we would all like to be able to buy at the lowest price when it suits us, we all can't or don't. Some of us buy more than we should have and some don't buy enough.

The bottom line is: the more machines (regardless of brand) in circulation helps us all - the bigger the market the more sales (both new and used) and after one has had one brand, he/she will often want to try another brand (for whatever the reason). Even if one does not like his machine and sells it for 1/2 price over ebay a new owner is found and he will in turn spread the word. Sales might be hard to come by right now, but times will get better (all storms end eventually). I've said it before - we all as independent businesses do what we think we have to do to survive. Competition is a good thing.

By Big Wolf on Unrecorded Date: Edit

In an effort to not loose sight of the original topic of discussion which is; "should I buy a new Argo or a Max". I think that one would have to look at and carefully consider a couple of key items when making a decision like this. Putting aside the machine performance, features, looks, cost, ease of maintenance, brand names, track record, and all that sort of stuff. You need to really think hard about who, where, and how you would get basic service for warranty repair work, and also just basic maintenance work and technical assistance when you need it. If you are a some what handy individual and can work with tools and basic equipment stuff, then you really do not have a difficult decision as to what brand you want to own and work on. If you are not capable of performing your own maintenance and repair work work, then you need to look real hard at the brand that can offer you the most stability and lowest turn over in their dealer network. If you are comfortable with getting serviced from 60 Depot Street, Buffalo, New York, then go for it. I you really beleive that any local dealer near you will be cooperative and willingly service or repair your machine for you, when you bought it from some one else, or directly from the factory, you should probably think a couple of dozen more times about that!

I am sorry to say, but this is the reality of the situation and discussion topic!

By Fred Sowerwine, Montana's Max dealer (Fred4dot) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Don't mean to be arguing with Big Wolf, but the Max (I'm speaking only of the Max because that is what I sell) is a machine that any repair shop can easily work on. By this I mean snowmobile, quad, motorcycle, lawn & garden, auto, or ag. Engines are covered by scores of service centers all over the world (at least Kohler and Briggs - not sure about the new Kawasaki). RI gives phenomenal parts service and if you need it in a hurry will overnight it to you (I carry very few parts, because the need is so seldom and I can get whatever I need so easily. I spend a few bucks on delivery but save money in the long run by not having to stock a lot of what probably will never get sold).

I personally don't care where one has gotten his machine, if he needs help or parts, I am glad to be of service. Of course I might do something for no or little charge if it is a previous customer, but everyone who comes to me for parts or advise is "my customer" whether any money changes hands or not. Most of the time when people come to me for parts (unless I am working on their machine in my shop or it is a customer that I intend to give a price break), I send them straight to RI or some local supplier. RI does such a great job, why fool with perfection (don't have to worry about ordering the wrong part or not getting all the information RI needs to supply the right part). I don't know how many times I have been given the wrong part by other supply houses - I HAVE NEVER GOTTEN THE WRONG PART FROM RI.

So in a nut shell, In my opinion, Anyone anywhere, mechanically inclined or not, can buy a Max knowing that in the event you need help, you can be taken care of. This board and a phone will get anyone all the advice needed to line anyone out on how to do a repair.

By David Keeso (Argomag) on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Fred does have a very good point. I think the same would also apply to the ARGOs. They are almost the same vehicles, just different setup (different engines, tranny, and internal parts may be bigger or smaller etc) but overall, I think most parts can be found anywhere. The only part I have had trouble finding is the double rc50 chain but I was looking up north and not in the city. When you really think about it, their aren't many parts in these machines- you have axles, sprockets, bearings, chain then electrical stuff can be found easily enough, their are engine suppliers everywhere and if you go to the right places, you can get things very cheep. I found a repair shop last week up north that has many parts for the engine in my ARGO and one of them was a recoil with all the parts, the housing, everything- 10 bucks cash for it all. The thing is over 8 years old now but in perfect shape and he also has other parts that fit my engine. I am now planning to take the ARGO down to him in the spring and get him to install the recoil and something else for the carb (can't remember what its called or what it does off hand) but he will give it to me for 5 bucks. He also can get any part for that engine within 2 days if I need it and as long as I pay cash, their isn't any tax on it or the other crap you end up paying.

so basically, if you lift the right stone, you can get what you need and at low prices. SOmetimes those really run down places you see in the middle of nowhere are the best finds you can get.

By Big Wolf on Unrecorded Date: Edit

Well some of what you say is correct. You can some what easily get service for all the brand name engines including the Kawasaki Industrial engine. I had to search for a while, but I found a some what local parts and repair source for the Kaw.

Regarding the rest of the mechanical stuff, I really do not know of any repair shops as you mentioned, in the Detroit area that would even want to work on any thing that they are not familiar with or sell. It would take some time to search out a mechanic that would be interested in doing your basic type repair work for you. When you do find a willing mechanic, his basic rates will no doubt be $65.00 per hour or more for repair work. And that's ok, he has to make a dollar and living at what he does.

R.I.'s parts and technical support has been very good up to this point. Although for what ever reason they have not provided me with any form of follow up response to the pre-mature chain strecth issue that I have experienced with my new 950T machine. I have left several phone messages for Jay since last week, and I asked him to please return my call, and they still have not sent me the replacement chains that they said they would do.

I can tell you what I do beleive the problem is with the chains, however, for the time being I have been holding back until they at least provide me with some form of follow up to address the problem. So far that has not happened at all!

As far as logging on to this discussion board and getting help, it is good, I only found this site by pure luck when I stumbled on to it. There is a vast percentage of enthusist that do not even know this site exists, and probably even more that do not even own a computer or log onto the internet. Although those numbers continue to grow day by day, that is reality.

Competition is a wonderfull thing when conducted at a healthy and productive level! It is obvious to me that the unstable costing structures and the lets make a deal internet business has severely damaged R.I.'s business position and profitability! Of course the economy has not helped either!

You only have to look as far as poor Bill over on the other discussion topic, he obviously needs some real hands on help from a mechanic or some one. It would sure be nice if there was a couple of dealer/reapir centers at least in his state, that could help him out.

I have to take my hat off to Argo and their distributor and dealer network structure. It may not be the best or perfect, but you can clearly see the differences. I only had to look as far as visiting our local Argo distributor to see that they are doing their best to continue improving their image and run a first class operation. And also just looking at the events page here on Route 6x6, the obvious lob sided show listings for the Argo and Max products tells a major story by itself.

I do not wish to bash R.I. or argue with any one about this subject. It is difficult to not voice my opinion and concerns, when I see things going on that need to be changed for the better.

By JDN_2 (204.58.127.10) on : Edit

I'm having trouble 'dating' when things were submitted to this board. Anyhow, I am about to buy a new Max from the factory because of the deals offered. The dealer closest to me (50 miles from Baton Rouge) has only a new 2003 Max II ($7200) and a new 2003 Max IV ($8200)in stock and when they are gone he's out of the business. Here it is 2005 and I can get a brand new one from RI for thousands less. I know, I've been dealing with RI's Galen for the past couple weeks and they've emailed me their latest pricing.

PS: perhaps dealers shouldn't tell potential customers that they can't sell product and will soon be out of business (Or maybe I should thank him for being honest).

Ive spent a great deal of time the last few weeks reading up on Argo vs Max on these pages and elsewhere and trying to compare without actually driving either one. Seems both have their fair share of admirers and critics. I did get to drive a '96 Vanguard with the 16 hp BS the other day. Way too slow and too low. I'll be driving a '99 Max IV next week and if it performs the way I hope it does I'll be buying new the following week.